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Lesson # 4, The Dreaded Snap Stall (Read 4490 times)
Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
CAUTION! You Must read Matthew McGee’s “Conceptual Kiting” in the Stickies Section before continuing to read!!!!

Intro:

Be fore warned, that this lesson is based on the basic snap stall as described on the Prism Freestyle Pilot DVD. I know that there are many ways to approach this maneuver, but for every individual there are little things we add or take away, change and manipulate to make it work for our own style. That’s what makes us individuals. So please if you will share some of your thoughts and wisdom for this lesson. Tell us what works, or even what not works. Here, I’ll start. When I do the two pops, I find for my own style, the first pop is a little harder than the second, but the DVD states that the second pop should be harder. To each his or her own. But, you as an individual will have to experiment with what works for you, and what doesn’t. For now, let’s stick with a common starting point, The Freestyle Pilot DVD, and work from there. If we follow the lesson, we should every once in a while actually get the kite stalled and then we can make adjustments from there. Good Luck, and as they say, Smooth Winds!

OK, We’re ready:

Oh, yeah….you think the other lessons were hard, this has to be one of the hardest yet to master. So easy in concept, but hard in execution. I’m going to try and give some analogies that we all can visualize and relate to. I realize this subject has been hammered out quite a few times on the Forum, but because of all the requests and over all enthusiasm, I thought I’d give it a go. Besides, the snap stall is the most dramatic base move everyone should have in their arsenal of tricks.

Some things to think about and visualize:

The snap stall, visualize a kite crossing the wind window then all of a sudden snaps the nose straight up and freezes. Like it was just “Stapled to the sky” (from the DVD) not moving at all. Just sitting there, one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three. Then all of a sudden takes off like a rocket, or starts to flip around like it was possessed. Now that’s a snap stall!

Hope you all can relate to this. When watching a comedy routine and the comic says something funny, the drummer does a ba-dum--pa! We’re focusing on the ba-dum part. For those with a music background, it’s a grace note. For the drummers out there, think of a Para-Diddle. Now finally for the music listeners, especially the James Brown fans, try the “On the One” count. (Aw feel good, da-da-da-da-da-da-da) Focus on the “the One” part. Anyone getting this, or am I the only one? OK, short and sweet, Pop one hand followed with an immediate and “Harder” pop with the other hand. Oh well if you get it cool, if not, watch the Freestyle Pilot DVD. Now for fun, take your right hand and hold it in front of you. Now imagine your hand is riding up and down evenly spaced waves. First it rises up, then it come down. Up, and then down. Now add the left hand like it’s following the right hand on the same wave, just waist width behind. You will look foolish doing this on the flying field, so I suggest you do this in the privacy of your own home. If you don’t care, I won’t be held responsible for any of the comments or funny looks you get out in public. Now concentrate…..Ah, yes…..close your eyes. You have a beaded head band on to hold your 25 inches of hair from falling over your face…. the light breeze is cooling you through your all linen smock. Your hands are doing the up and down wave. Ah, Woodstock…..Oops! Got carried away for a second. Now focus! The waves are coming faster, your hands are going faster, up and down, up and down. OK, Stop, I’m getting sea-sick! I think you got it so let’s move on.

The Setup:

For aesthetics, we will be flying from the right side of the wind window across to the left side about 15ft. or approximately 5 meters above the ground. (Only cuz I’m right handed and I’m writing this.) First fly completely across the window to the left edge and keep your hands close to your body waist high. Watch and notice where the kite starts to decelerate and then just hold your lines without moving a muscle. In other words freeze, don’t move, but you can breathe. The kite will actually turn nose up and slowly turn towards the right. This is a natural move for the kite and I want you to know this since when you snap stall the natural tendency for the kite is to naturally turn from whence it came. Now do it again, but when the kite stalls and turns it’s nose up, manage the tension on your lines so the kite stays nose up. Oh Yeah, you can move now to make this happen. Do this several times to get use to the feel of managing the tension. You will need this later on in the lesson.

Now for the hard part:

Let’s start flying across the wind window starting from the right side to the left. Remember where I told you to have your hands, close to your body about waist high. (Ha!, you forgot, didn’t you.) It’s OK, you have about three seconds to get them there. Now notice when the kite starts to decelerate, pop the right hand like you’re hitting a drum and your hand bounces back to where it started, as you are returning your right hand to the position it started from, pop the left hand a bit harder, but with the exact movement as the right hand. OH! I get it, like the wave thing you had me do with my hands! You got it! But it’s only one wave so we don’t get sea sick. Now take a step forward and push you hands out like you’re pushing a bucket of water over and you don’t want to get your new shoes wet or dirty. So what did your kite do? Turn up then turn left, kind of a wiggle thing? That means you aren’t popping your lines, you’re just pulling fast. Remember the hit the drum part? Does it want to start an Axel? If it does you released the tension with your right hand just before you did the pop, or you pulled your left hand towards your body just a bit just before you popped the right hand. Ok, try it again, and remember to set up your step and push of your hands to be a smooth transition from the two pops of the hands. OK, fly across the window watch and feel for the deceleration, now pop the hands with the same timing as the ba-dum, but remember the ba part is softer than the dum part. So you pop the right hand a bit softer than the left hand. You’ll get the feel for this in time. Try a light pop first, then add a bit more each time you do this. OK, again, pop, pop, step, and push. What did the kite do this time? Wow, that’s it, it stalled for a moment, kind of crooked though and sliding a bit to the left, but it stalled! OK, it did stall, and it was a little over rotated and sliding to the left. Remember I said earlier that the kite will try to go back from whence it came?  Well, that’s why it was a bit over rotated, and the little slide? There are a number of things or a combination of things. Your first pop with your right hand wasn’t hard enough to shake the wind out of the kite sails, or because your hands weren’t even or you lines are
 
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Reply #1 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Hi All, Just want to add a little note. I'll be taking a break on writing any more lessons. I think I need to get back to flying for the sake of just flying, and to let the rest of the class catch up.  As I posted a while back. I think I've hit a wall with my own flying and all I seem to do is help folks up on the hill. So I'm gonna take a break, and do some fly'in, and just be a kid. (an "Old Kid!) Hope you like this lesson, I had to shorten it since it was too big to post. Funny, it was only 34.5 kb, and I can attatch a picture that is 150 kb. Wierd....Oh yeah. Smooth Winds!
 
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Reply #2 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm

Jim_kantaxel   Ex Member

*****
 
UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
Hi All, Just want to add a little note. I'll be taking a break on writing any more lessons. I think I need to get back to flying for the sake of just flying, and to let the rest of the class catch up.  As I posted a while back. I think I've hit a wall with my own flying and all I seem to do is help folks up on the hill. So I'm gonna take a break, and do some fly'in, and just be a kid. (an "Old Kid!) Hope you like this lesson, I had to shorten it since it was too big to post. Funny, it was only 34.5 kb, and I can attatch a picture that is 150 kb. Wierd....Oh yeah. Smooth Winds!


Hey Rusty!
Thanks for the lesson!  Sorry you're taking a break.  Wink I guess it's not the same as retiring, tho.  Besides, this teaching position doesn't pay well either. Shocked

You certainly have a way with descriptions.  My method of snap stalling is a tad different with the same results, I hope!

I usually use a combo for the first pop and then pop the second giving slack and the step forward after the second pop with both hands.  Just a one handed pop on the upper wing doesn't work for me because I'm probably too old for speed.  Not the Woodstock type either, I mean.
Roll Eyes

See yah at the hill,
Jim
 
Bagged:Mostly Prisms (ONE! short of everything) ... ...... ...
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Reply #3 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
Darbbackwords   Ex Member

 
Thanks for the lessons Reggie, I have yet to have a chance to do any of them but have read all of them a few times getting ready for when I have the chance. So hopefully with a bit of practice I can do a fade on purpose instead of by accident  Grin

-Brad
 
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Reply #4 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm

Dean_Groundeffect   Ex Member

*****
 
Good notes!!



I'd like to provide this link on the same topic in addition to these great notes. Cheesy



Advice on Snapstalls


Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Dean
 
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Reply #5 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm

Dean_Groundeffect   Ex Member

*****
 
Quote:
CAUTION! You Must read Matthew McGee’s “Conceptual Kiting” in the Stickies Section before continuing to read!!!!


A GREAT read, which can be found here:



      Conceptual Kiting



Hope that helps.
cheers,
Dean
 
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Reply #6 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
Iddo   Ex Member

 
Wow,

I've got some catching up to do. Wife's back, can count on the beach this Friday. Thanks Reggie!

Iddo
 
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Reply #7 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
WinterDaze   Ex Member

 
Epic Effort Reggie,

UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
CAUTION!...   But it’s only one wave so we don’t get sea sick.


So you think you can't get sea sick off one wave huh... I could show you a thing or 2...

Now only one bone to pick Reggie (you know I had to find something Wink, yeah so it took an hour of reading...:Shocked) BUT (and even the helpful link that Dean supplied off the Stickies didn't say it)

Now a little fact that has been helping me, and TBH I still haven't got it to a point of looking half reasonable was to know that when I'm getting it right (the stall part, not the snap bit) the kite is actually being made to travel backwards (direction of wind) at the same speed as the wind, so in effect it's stationary in regards to its position  in the wind i.e. that in the stall the kite and the wind are moving at exactly the same speed.
Thus because you are attached to the kite you will be traveling at the same speed as the wind, thats where the feet and arms come into it. Kite stationary in a pocket of moving air, and your doing the moving too...

My .01c

I bow to your visuolinguistic skills Reggie, now if I could only read it with my eyes closed... Grin

many thanks,

WD
 
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Reply #8 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
Edward_fesdigital   Ex Member

 
The "Advanced Way to Fly" video actually did a better job explaining the snap stall than the Freestyle pilot DVD, the one thing they did in that presentation is provide an audio cue, then the watcher was ask to close their eyes and listen to the audio snaps, where they provided a comparison of a "good" vs a "great" snapstall.  Made me appreciate really how fast the timing should be.....don't think pop, pop, step, push....think  poppop, steppush  Grin

My personal feedback on this move, since it is one I am struggling with, it that it seems VERY dependent on wind, position in window, and kite...that instinctual self corrections for all the different conditions I guess will only come with time.
 
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Reply #9 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
WinterDaze wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
the kite is actually being made to travel backwards (direction of wind) at the same speed as the wind


WD, Good point.....But I watched the movie The Debators the other night and I'm gonna have a counter point.

If the kite was traveling backwards at the same speed of the wind, there would be no wind pressure on the sail to create lift. So wouldn't the kite fall to the ground? Physics would suggest that the kite travel slightly slower than the wind to create just enough lift to hold the kite in a hovering position.

Pressure, the coeficient of drag (CD), plus the force of lift, will offset the force of gravity. Hmmm, Wow, I thought I forgot everyting from that physics class I took. (No wonder my daughter calls me a Geek!)

WD, I really value your comments. Thanks!
 
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Reply #10 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
Edward_fesdigital   Ex Member

 
UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
If the kite was traveling backwards at the same speed of the wind, there would be no wind pressure on the sail to create lift. So wouldn't the kite fall to the ground?


Not if you are facing east, then the rotation of the earth helps....  Grin

 
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Reply #11 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
glk47   Ex Member

 
WinterDaze wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
Now a little fact that has been helping me, and TBH I still haven't got it to a point of looking half reasonable was to know that when I'm getting it right (the stall part, not the snap bit) the kite is actually being made to travel backwards (direction of wind) at the same speed as the wind, so in effect it's stationary in regards to its position  in the wind i.e. that in the stall the kite and the wind are moving at exactly the same speed.
Thus because you are attached to the kite you will be traveling at the same speed as the wind, thats where the feet and arms come into it. Kite stationary in a pocket of moving air, and your doing the moving too...



Actually, this isn't quite true. If the kite is moving. relative to the ground, at the same speed and direction as the wind, this is equivalent to no wind, thus no lift, thus kite falls out of sky Cry. If you do it right, however, you get a nice soft landing.  Wink  To hold the stall, the kite has to be moving just enough slower than the wind to provide just enough lift to stay aloft.

The really hard part of holding a stall, at least for me  ???, is keeping the kite from turning in one direction or the other.

Larry
 
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Reply #12 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
glk47   Ex Member

 
Arrg - this is what happens when you do actual work and leave the browser window up for half a day without refreshing! You're late to the party!  Lips Sealed

Quote:
Not if you are facing east, then the rotation of the earth helps....  Grin



Only, maybe the coriolis force means you have to face west in Australia? WD?
 
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Reply #13 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
WinterDaze   Ex Member

 
Well maybe you all have a point  Embarrassed I blame the half bottle of red! But thanks for the correction, thats why this forum is so good, no comment goes through without scrutiny! Grin

(I could say I was testing you, but you'd all pick it! )

WD
 
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Reply #14 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
temoniprince   Ex Member

 
Hey reg

I enjoy reading you posts but its hard for me to really do the trick in my head. I need to see it  in person or visial. idk its how i learn.

but i keep reading!!

thx sammy
 
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Reply #15 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Hey WD, I just had to, you know, I take your comments in high regard, but I just had to turn the tables on ya just for fun. I knew someone else would, but I had to say it first.. Grin

I sent you a PM.
 
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Reply #16 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
wingnut2   Ex Member

 
sorry regg......a paradidle is a 7 stroke roll, now a flam would be more like it>>>>>>>>>za-dap     8)
 
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Reply #17 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Quote:
sorry regg......a paradidle is a 7 stroke roll, now a flam would be more like it>>>>>>>>>za-dap     8)


Thanks wingnut2, I admit I haven't heard a paradidie since Jr. High.. But I thought when you start slow and speed up, to the roll, the sound is almost like a pre-hit on the drum with one hand before the other, then speed up till there is no audible difference and sounds like a drum roll. So thanks for the correction. Jr. High was a very long time ago....

So are you a drummer? I was in the trumpet section.
 
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Reply #18 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
streamhawk   Ex Member

 
good stuff again Reggie. Do you happen to know why the visual instruction from Prism changed from the Advanced Way to Fly to the Freestyle Pilot? In other words, the old video shows the hands in front of the body, turned inwards, then a quick snap outwards followed by the pull or pop inwards, as opposed to hands by the waist or hips movement Mark does in the F.P.

I've tried the old way, seems to really put alot of torque on one's wrist. Maybe that's the reason, or it's faster and easier with the hands farther down on the body and more to the sides than right out front?

Bill
 
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Reply #19 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
wingnut2   Ex Member

 
UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
Thanks wingnut2, I admit I haven't heard a paradidie since Jr. High.. But I thought when you start slow and speed up, to the roll, the sound is almost like a pre-hit on the drum with one hand before the other, then speed up till there is no audible difference and sounds like a drum roll. So thanks for the correction. Jr. High was a very long time ago....

So are you a drummer? I was in the trumpet section.



That particular excersize was used alot in the drum/bugle corp and for a rudimentary drill type thing but ya dont hear it too much anymore.....anyway  played my first paying gig "sock-hop" back in 68 with a "garage band on queen anne, in 72 started doing the club scene and worked as a sideman out of local 76 musicians, played steady till the mid 80s then got hungry and had to get a real job Undecided    if your interested with the music scene around the NW go to NW bands.com. anyone here involed in that scene at all needs to visit the site itll blow your mind!!    Dan
 
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Reply #20 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
wingnut2   Ex Member

 
streamhawk wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
good stuff again Reggie. Do you happen to know why the visual instruction from Prism changed from the Advanced Way to Fly to the Freestyle Pilot? In other words, the old video shows the hands in front of the body, turned inwards, then a quick snap outwards followed by the pull or pop inwards, as opposed to hands by the waist or hips movement Mark does in the F.P.

I've tried the old way, seems to really put alot of torque on one's wrist. Maybe that's the reason, or it's faster and easier with the hands farther down on the body and more to the sides than right out front?

Bill



howdy, re the snap stall after all this time it fianally became clear or atleast for me it did......Ill get into it by doing a sharp sqaure at the bottom right hand corner and snap the wrist just as it starts to go left, and the oppisite for the other side,dont think it matters how its done just as long as the kite stops in mid air, everyone developes thier own technique
 
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Reply #21 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Quote:
regg>>>>>that particular excersize was used alot in the drum/bugle corp


Sounds like we'er getting off track, but yes Seattle Imperials Drum and Bugle Corp. 1970-1974. Soprano  Grin Wink
 
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Reply #22 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
wingnut2   Ex Member

 
you mean I go on and on and on like you Grin Wink just kiddin....but all seriousness aside, thier could be some here that were in the bizz and would love to be aware of that site.....  8)
 
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Reply #23 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
nailimexam   Ex Member

 
When I tried the 'fly to the edge of the window and freeze' my kite didn't turn nose up, it just went strait, stalled, then drifted downward nose toward ground.

I even tried a few times with the top line slightly tighter, and still the kite didn't turn around at the edge of the window.

Any advice? What's going wrong?
 
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Reply #24 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Any advice? What's going wrong?


Nailimexam, I would venture that you are flying too fast to the edge. Try slowing the kite speed down before you get to the edge.

BTW, what kite are you using? It sounds like a heavier kite in the Prism line up.
 
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Reply #25 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
nailimexam   Ex Member

 
Well, slowing the kite speed down would require walking forward (I would have to break my "freeze") but I'll try that next time.

I am flying a Qpro STD  Smiley
 
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Reply #26 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Well, slowing the kite speed down would require walking forward (I would have to break my "freeze") but I'll try that next time.

I am flying a Qpro STD  Smiley


OK, go ahead and break the freeze.

Are you using wieghts on your Qpro?
Wieghts positioned above the Center T can cause this.

Is it a good clean wind?
Swirling winds comming off of trees or buildings can cause this.

How high are you in the window?
Flying too low 10 ft or under will reduce the wind so it will not have enough lift to hold your kite up.

Next time I have the chance to fly My Qpro STD. I'll see if I can reproduce your dilema. (I'll do some testing and get back to you.)
 
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Reply #27 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
KiteKid   Ex Member

 
Just out of curiosity, how would you define a snap stall?
 
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Reply #28 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Steve wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
Just out of curiosity, how would you define a snap stall?


OK, Take a Post-it-note and place it in your open hand palm up. Make sure the sticky side is up. The Post-it-Note represents your kite. Now slap your hand with the Post-it-Note to your forehead.

That's a "Slap Stall"!

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
 
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Reply #29 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
nailimexam   Ex Member

 
UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
OK, go ahead and break the freeze.

Are you using wieghts on your Qpro?
Wieghts positioned above the Center T can cause this.


No weights

Quote:
Is it a good clean wind?
Swirling winds comming off of trees or buildings can cause this.


Wind is preety bad/bumpy;that could be the problem

Quote:
How high are you in the window?
Flying too low 10 ft or under will reduce the wind so it will not have enough lift to hold your kite up.


My first few attampts were low, but then I tried higher to see if it would work.

Quote:
Next time I have the chance to fly My Qpro STD. I'll see if I can reproduce your dilema. (I'll do some testing and get back to you.)


Thanks
 
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Reply #30 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
benjai   Ex Member

 
I spent some time today working on a few of the basics (there’s a bit of an epic post on the lesson #1 thread – I’d get a coffee first if you plan on reading it Grin ) and I’m really struggling with the snap-stall… I got one or two, but they are really inconsistent. I seem to get three types of failure (assuming the kite is flying across the window from right to left), either the kite makes a neat 90 degree turn to straight up, or the kite makes a neat 180 turn to fly back across the window, or my all time favourite, the kite makes a 90 degree turn and backflips!!! Of these, I can get from flying across to a backflip almost on demand – this looks good, and I suppose I should be happy, but I’m trying to snap-stall… One time, I managed to do a 180 from the backflip and catch the fade. All great – but why cant I snap-stall?
Any thoughts what I’m doing wrong?
Ben
 
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Reply #31 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
nailimexam,

I went out today for about two hours, and I couldn't replicate your flying to the edge and then die nose down. I was about to give up then I went behind some trees where the wind was really bumpy and voila! It did what you said. So I would have to say, find some cleaner wind and give it a try.

Let us know about your findings.. Smiley
 
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Reply #32 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Ben, Seems that you are haveing a bit of slack manegment trouble.

When you snap stall and it turns nose up, and fly's away, the tention on the lines is what makes it continue to fly. Try moving your hands out faster with a huge step forward.

When it does a 180 turn, I would suspect the first input is too hard, or more of a pull than a pop. If the wind was really strong, I would suspect that the first pop was a bit too hard.

Now for the ending up on it's back, that's actually a snap lazy input. Your first input was correct, but the second was too hard.

My suggestion is to start doing snap stalls closer to the edge of the wind window and then slowly move closer to the center. Thsi will give you the feel of the timing and as you get closer to the center, you will have to make adjustments with speed and how hard you pop, and how much line to give it to stay in one place. ( Walking forward, Lunge, or run. )

Give that a try and let us know what you find.
 
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Reply #33 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
rjs   Ex Member

 
Its nice to know that someone else has discovered the "snap lazy". Didn't know what it was at the time. Now I can't wait to show my family, "Hey look I can do a snap lazy." Wonder if they will be impressed.

I found I could do it a few weeks back as I was trying to snap stall also. I can do it constantly.

Its good to know how to get to the snap stall from there.

Thanks Reggie.

bob


Grin Grin Grin Grin
 
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Reply #34 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Quote:
Its nice to know that someone else has discovered the "snap lazy".


Bob, It only looks reall cool if once on it's back, you do a lazy susan right after it goes deep into the turtle. Very simple. just start the Lazy Susan with the hand you started the snap with. Once it does the full Lazy Susan, take up slack and fly away!!
 
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Reply #35 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
rjs   Ex Member

 
Now you got me excited. Might have to go out and try it this evening if the weather cooperates.

Thanks,

Bob


 
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Reply #36 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
UBNVUS wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
Now for the ending up on it's back, that's actually a snap lazy input. Your first input was correct, but the second was too hard.


Ben, My mistake, Your first input was too hard and the second was too soft or non-existent. Sorry about that. I had to go out and fly today just to see if what I was saying was correct. I'm just a rookie!!

Bob, I hope you read this!!
 
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Reply #37 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
rjs   Ex Member

 

Bob, I hope you read this!! [/quote]


got it, haven't had the time to try however

thanks

bob
 
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Reply #38 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
benjai   Ex Member

 
So today I was honoured with a PM from sensei UBNVUS suggesting I should put some more time into snap stalls. Who am I to argue? That’s the excuse I used with the wife at least Grin
I got an hour on the Hypno in pretty steady 6mph winds – lovely and light and just right to make stalling easy, and to make it more so I tried near the edge of the window. I did some other stuff too, but there’s a separate thread on this, and I don’t want to go off-topic here.

Here’s what I found – Reggie is right!!!! My inputs were back to front – that is my first pop was harder than my second. After the pops, providing slack simply put the kite in a backflip. So I concentrated really hard on pulling harder in the second pop. To me this is completely counter-intuative. My thought process was the first pop has to turn the kite through 90 degrees, and the second just stops the turn – so it seemed logical that the second pop needed to be lighter. This is completely incorrect, and simply produces a turn. When it’s right, what seems to happen is this: The first pop starts the turn, but mainly it pulls the wing toward the pilot and tilts the nose slightly towards the pilot too. Then the second pop has to pull the second wing to the same distance from the pilot as the first, and the action of this squares the wings and stops the turn. Then the release of the pops occurs on both lines at about the same time causing the kite to stall and remain stationary. Once like this, walking forward can hold the stall. It feels like you stop the wings flying one at a time. First the upper wing stops flying and the lower flies past it and hence turns the nose up. Then a second pop stops the second wing flying and hey presto the kite is stalled. The pop action is actually quite aggressive and designed to pull the wing out of the air (actually to push a bow-wave of air towards the pilot, leaving the airspeed experienced by the sail much lower – hence the stall).
So the inputs have to be fairly aggressive and short. They must be small followed by big. The tension from the first pop is maintained for the second. There must be slack after the two pops, and this is provided on both lines at the same time.
This is what I found. Too short or slow inputs just make turns, and too big a first input makes a snap-lazy (backflip). I got a few tonight where the kite flew horizontally, turned and the nose rocked forwards, straightened and the nose rocked back to upright with the kite stationary.
I have to way that it looks really good when you get it, but I still have to really think about making the second input larger than the first.
Bad – SNAP, snap, push
Good – snap, SNAP, Puuuuuuuussssssssshhhhhhh
I’ll keep trying until I can do it most times in higher wind, but the lessons work!
Reggie – give me more, I can handle it!
Ben
 
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Reply #39 - Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm
UBNVUS   Ex Member

 
Benjai wrote on Dec 31st, 1969 at 4:00pm:
So today I was honoured with a PM from sensei UBNVUS suggesting I should put some more time into snap stalls. Who am I to argue? Thatęs the excuse I used with the wife at least Grin


Thanks Ben, Now your wife probably wants a note, Right?

[/quote]Reggie ? give me more, I can handle it!
[/quote]

Take a look at Lesson #5 You might like it.

Thanks for the feed back. That was almost a lesson in itself! Seems like you're getting better at a very fast pace. Next thing you know you'll be entering your first competition and then you'll be a ĘMasters Champion before you know it.

I need to post more lessons faster..But I just can't do all the tricks that everyone wants. But I'm trying!!
 
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